Well, it's Monday once again, and almost Christmas time.
My holiday humbuggies were deepened on Saturday when I recieved word from Ben about a former friend. Ben and I were friends with this person 12 or 13 years ago, he and his wife. I found out that they are divorcing after 17 years, and to add to it, that our friend was\is abusive to her. Along with other assorted sins, I was saddened to learn of the depths that this "friend" has descended to. It just goes to show that you may think you know a person quite well, but that you really don't. What a sucky situation...
I don't really have anything else to add today, so I'll bail out...
Monday, December 19, 2005
Monday Stuff...
Posted by Daishi at 3:05 PM
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5 comments:
I don't think that someone who has made a serious mistake (or even a series of serious mistakes) should suddenly go from being a friend to a "friend."
I'm not so sure. Even you said that you don't know what to say to him, or how to act around him. On what, now, is your/our friendship with him, based? While I believe that being forgiving is a necessary attribute, someone who does things that are reprehensible doesn't necessarily merit trust or confidence. We are required to forgive everyone, but not necessarily to trust everyone. How can a friendship exist without trust? I say these things with full knowledge that I have done things that I have been sorry for. Does he seem repentant? Is he spreading lies? Should I consider him a friend if he does these things and is apparently unrepentant?
Christ knows the intent of our hearts. He knows we can't be trusted - we all fall short. What do you suggest?
I'd have to write off most, if not all, of my friends if my feelings of friendship were based solely upon whether I could trust them.
Is friendship simply a form of verification? Certification that we give our seal of approval on another person's character and behavior? You never know someone as well as you think you do.
I did say that I don't know what to say to him. There have been times I didn't know what to say to you. I'm glad that didn't signal an end to our our friendship.
I suppose that my feelings are dependent on whether or not the person is repentant or not.
Someone who consistently displays behavior and makes choices that are detrimental to others and themselves should be approached warily. I suppose that it is easier for me, since I haven't seen him or talked to him for 14 years. But, abusive behavior deserves no quarter. I would feel differently if he were repentant and willing to change his behavior. But, aside from his recalcitrance, he is spreading lies about his wife, who he has also abused. That's not right, I think.
Friendship shouldn't be a form of verification, but destructive/abusive behavior shouldn't be condoned or tolerated, just because you are friends with someone. Should a person, for the sake of friendship, continue to associate with someone who hurts others, violates commandments and covenants?
I realize that a person shouldn't be written off at the drop of a hat, but a person should say, perhaps, that until the offending person changes their behavior, they will not associate with the offender.
It seems harsh, but what other options are there? Are we gonna tell him that what he did was all right? That we support him? Are we going to tell him that he is not spreading lies, that he is telling the truth about his wife, when we know better? Or, are we going to come out and tell him that what he did is wrong, but that he is a good person? What are the options, other than telling him that I don't want to associate with him until his behavior changes? What do you think? What options are there?
Well, these are all interesting points that you raise.
I haven't spoken with him about any of this; I don't know what his "side of the story" is, how repentant he is, etc. You said that we know better. Well, realistically, we don't. I believe what I was told, because I trust the person who told it to me. Ironically, what I heard could have been a lie, and everything is backward. If it were, I'd have condemned a friend. How can I know? I can't.
From what you wrote, I think perhaps our notions of friendship are quite different. I have said nothing to justify, condone, or tolerate the behavior he is accused of. Far from it.
You talk a lot about a person needing to be repentant. How can you know if they are or aren't? You said: "Should a person, for the sake of friendship, continue to associate with someone who hurts others, violates commandments and covenants?"
I can only answer yes, because I know of no one who isn't guilty of these things. Think of your own experiences. Some of us spend our entire lives trying to repent of weaknesses that violate commandments and hurt others. Some of us don't begin the repentence process until after years, even decades, of sinful living have passed. Does this mean all of our friends should have renounced us prior to our decision to repent?
The Pharisees tried to condemn Jesus for his association with sinners. He knew their hearts. He knew they couldn't be trusted. He still befriended them and exorted them to turn their lives around.
Forgive me for raising these questions. I should have kept my thoughts to myself; we're each entitled to deal with our friends in our own way, certainly. I'm sorry that I told you about their situation; it seems to have only brought you anger and, as you said, worsened your case of the "bah humbugs."
I was asked to pray for their family and keep them in mind, and to ask the same of their other friends (such as yourself). That's all that I can do. I can't know the whole story, how repentant anyone is, or how it will all turn out. The only thing I know, and can act upon with any certainty, is that prayer is the best thing I can do to try and help my friends.
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